Wednesday, April 29, 2009

Aids the substance, more on turning

Well thankfully Di appeased me with a little debate. If I'm reading your comments correctly Di you are talking of the spiral seat where the upper body turns independantly from the hips and lower half, in other words a twist in opposite directions at the waist?

This is something I would use in later work, with my horse that can walk/trot/canter on circles and straight lines. I think it's a great tool to be able to ride the horse into the outside rein with the seat but keep him bending around the inside leg with the upper body. However, when I've ridden it I've felt that it is a momentary aid whereas the seat and upper body turning in unison is a staple initial *layer*.
When turning in synchronisation I use my outside knee and thigh to keep the outside shoulder turning and I find that if I approach the turns in a *square* manner then the 1/4's are placed correctly and it is tricky for them to evade/drift out. My shoulders turning ever so slightly onto the same arc the horse is on will bring my outside rein slightly closer to the wither and will back up my outide leg feeling of guarding the outside shoulder.

In all of this turning work I can't stress enough the importance of keeping both legs long and around the horse. Any unbalance in the rider during this early turning will be disastrous for the turn/circle and for this reason I always use my *breathing* legs deeply into my stirrups (like a half halt really) before applying the turning aids.

Of course the reality of all this is that our seats are in a constant state of flux in order to be with the movement of the horse, this goes without saying. Also that the riders body will only turn as much as the circle requires, any over turning by the rider would only be used as a small corrective movement.

9 comments:

Di said...

"When turning in synchronisation I use my outside knee and thigh to keep the outside shoulder turning and I find that if I approach the turns in a *square* manner then the 1/4's are placed correctly and it is tricky for them to evade/drift out. My shoulders turning ever so slightly onto the same arc the horse is on will bring my outside rein slightly closer to the wither and will back up my outide leg feeling of guarding the outside shoulder."

Yes I did this with Anky, she was anticipating the turn and falling to the inside. I find it quite confusing trying to analyse exactly what I do whilst riding. Heehee that's a debate in itself.

Claire said...

oh dear.

where does that leave putting the inside seatbone slightly forward?

but i suppose i was right, then, just turn yourself?

BTB the video has arrived .. we can watch it together (perhaps with DI as well? ... upset allison patrick etc, but hey...)

trudi said...

ooo, golly good a video watching session...I'll look forward to it, thanks Claire.

Yes you were right but I may not be. It's what I do but may not be correct lol It feels right when I ride it and it's so simple. Try it and report back.

Cabruze said...

Just reading your "turning thesis". Ooo good - emphasis on training the young horse!! Found myself nodding in agreement. Yes body language - just watch horses moving each other around! But as Claire points out, riding is a different question! Theory is useful ... but the words that keep going through my head are oft repeated by Philipe Karl "Balance is balance"....

Cabruze said...

Catching up and my above comment was in reply to your post with the Anja Beran pic!! Sorry!

Cabruze said...

OK. Now read all your thoughts on turning. My thoughts ..... first off that I'm oversimplifying!!! agree with lots (soft legs, etc) but think seat and balance is most important. Asking at the right time (i.e. using the footfall sequence to make what you want the easiest answer for the horse.) Perhaps I took your "dolly peg" example too literally? Made me think of stiff, inflexible seat and hips.

Spiral seat? I understood as the riders shoulders turning in alignment with the riders and horses hips?

trudi said...

Good points Jane, although I think you'll find that in the spiral seat hips move the opposite way to shoulders.It's all a bit of a misnoma anyway as the horse is in a constant state of flux.

Sorry if dolly made you think of stiff, absolutely only apply dolly theory to the way your body stays in alignment, ie head/shoulders/hips/legs all turning within the same plane, none of them turning more or less!!
I absolutely agree that the further training will take us to new levels where just a shift of weight used at the correct time will be our aid but this is baby school and we have to teach our horse to move from the pressure and find it's balance. The complicated stuff will follow, if I don't loose the will before..lol

I do find that if I fill students heads with too much science (eg balance, weight etc)to begin with then they end up twisting, bending, collapsing all over the place in an effort to comply. Hence I try to keep it simple to start (for horse and rider) and when they have exemplary seats we can use the shifting of balance.

Di said...

Trudi said;
"and when they have exemplary seats we can use the shifting of balance."

Hee hee.....

Cabruze said...

Ha ha .... think that's why I like current teacher so much .... she makes it simple enough for my small brain!!
Back to teaching a young horse to turn from onboard - I was taught (and still am!) to use the opening rein.